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Nick:
Hello and welcome to the Ascend Health Show. I’m Nick Angelis. I’m your host. I’m a nurse anesthetist and I’m one of the owners of Ascend Health Center. And I’m here again with Rodney Long, licensed independent social worker. How are you doing?
Rodney:
Good, good. Getting ready for the holidays, you know.
Nick:
You know, for 2 or 3 shows I’ve been plugging about this award we won for the best instructional runner up, but it’s getting a bit much. I should probably.
Rodney:
It’s run its course. Yeah.
Nick:
There might be two awards, actually.
Rodney:
Oh, it looks like it.
Nick:
Yeah. The other one must be yours. The avocado toast episode.
Rodney:
That’s right.
Nick:
So I wanted to call this “Is Self-Paced Silly” or “What’s Wrong with Betterhelp?” It’s basically that right now there’s a lot of great companies making these fairly inexpensive therapy or medication or these online portals, but they’re also not that great for you. So I just want to talk to Rodney about it and by the end we’ll probably have an opinion about it that you should listen to.
Rodney:
I already have an opinion about it, but we should talk about it and see maybe I’m missing something.
Nick:
I mean, I’m very vulnerable. Like I’ll probably listen to your opinion and change my opinion.
Rodney:
Maybe you should. Maybe you shouldn’t. You’re a therapist.
Nick:
Like you’ve got these skills. Yeah, actually, it is my personality. Yeah. My brother and I used to argue about where to go to eat and we’d convince each other and continue arguing just with the opposite.
Rodney:
Just like to go at it. Yeah.
Nick:
No one’s ever accused me of not being open minded.
Rodney:
There you go. There you go.
Nick:
So I’ll start with, I guess my pet peeve because let’s be honest, these the Ascend Health show is just whatever soapbox. Sure. For every day. So my problem is with Ketamine so obviously at ASCEND Health Center. Newsflash for those of you who this is your first episode, we offer Ketamine infusions Spravato which is Ketamine or half the Ketamine molecule. Janssen makes it into a nasal spray and we also have transcranial magnetic stimulation. So these are all cutting edge mental health treatments that very few other places have because it’s a lot of education, a lot of expense and we offer it to people with other psychiatrists and therapists because, you know, why take on patients medications and do all these treatments when we can make it more available? So the problem is that now there’s I don’t want to say cheaper versions of it because they’re actually a little bit expensive, but there’s ways that you can do a lot of these therapies online. But Ketamine being a controlled substance, it’s a little bit like the Facebook Adderall if you’re aware of the Facebook. Adderall.
Rodney:
Yeah, I think they clamp down on it. I’m not getting as many ads.
Nick:
I don’t. Yeah, otherwise I’d probably be a poor idea to even mention. But essentially you talk to a doctor through a Facebook ad and ten minutes later like, oh, here’s my prescription of a stimulant. Now I’ll get A’s instead of B’s in 20 years from now, I won’t understand why everything is black and white and why I can’t find any joy in life once my dopamine receptors have burned out. Sorry, Is that a little bit too. No, No, I think no.
Rodney:
I think you’re spot on. Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re spot on.
Nick:
That’s So the issue is that a lot of these are meant to be very useful, convenient ways to partake in health care. And one of my main points is that you may want to ignore everything that we’re saying today and try it out because I could be wrong and maybe they’ll have like some sort of deal or discount and you’re like, Nope, this is working for me.
Rodney:
Yeah, no, I think that part of that was like for a lot of them, especially on the mental health side, you know, you being on the prescribing side, I guess on the mental health side, I think a lot of it was about access, especially during COVID. You know, you saw an increase in these things, which I think is really cool, but I think I don’t know that access was really as much of an issue as people might have thought it was before. So but what I think happens is a lot of these companies, they get a lot of money behind them and so they get a lot of advertising. And I think the service or the quality of the care suffers a bit at the expense of growth and at the expense of kind of being on the cutting edge where somebody’s like ascent is really has that you hear, you know, local kind of face to it and who I know is doing the research and the work where I think a lot of these newer companies kind of were, you know, a lot of them are about growth. And so I think the quality suffers on the back end. That’s fair.
Nick:
Like we just had a team at ASCEND where for the whole day we didn’t have any patients in the office and my poor employees had to listen to me all day. We cut off early, you know, but but I took this like vision that I had in 2020 and edited it and I was like, I had some really stupid ideas in 2020. Like it was just like, we’re going to be the premier provider in Northeast Ohio and Ohio and expand. And I was like, Oh, that’s terrible. Why don’t we just stay in like Fairlawn Copley? Wadsworth Since we’re on WC TV, like we don’t need patients who I still have a few patients who drive for 6 or 7 hours to see me, but for the. Majority Like you just need something accessible because if you’re an hour away from me and you’ve got an issue. Well, got it. Especially for me as a nurse anesthetist like you’re going to have to drive an hour for me to do anything for you. Yeah. So I think that’s a lot of it. Like almost a breakdown of community and community supports is why these things are thriving.
Rodney:
Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes people want to try new things too. I think especially on like in the mental health space, I often hear people say things like, you know, I tried this or that medication didn’t work for me or this. And I’m like, Number one, you probably played your own doctor. Like so often that happens. I hear that. Number two, you probably gave it a week, you know, and then said it didn’t work. So, you know, to have the opportunity to connect with a place that you can be in front of and really talk with I think is important. So the more people we have doing that, great. I just want to make sure that we’re we’re doing it well, you know.
Nick:
So so really, I guess my complaint is more of an overarching complaint of society that Airbnb wouldn’t be in business if we still had friends that we could just spend the night at their house and go visit them. That’s true. Okay. Uber wouldn’t be in business if I just had a friend good enough to take me to the airport when I needed it. Yeah. So? So maybe that’s just the way society is kind of fragmenting into not having those connections. Okay.
Rodney:
Yeah, So that makes sense. Yeah, I think we’ve, we’ve suffered and a lot of ways and that and I think COVID did a number on a lot of us you know. Yeah. One of my big gripes is I don’t think many people or maybe they can but I think more people would be happy if they worked less. Most people are satisfied at 40, 50 hours a week. And I think that people really need a lot more time to themselves because I think you can’t really spend a lot of time with your friends. If you get home at 6:00 and you’re in bed by nine, you know? Yeah.
Nick:
Did you talk to my wife before this episode?
Rodney:
I did not.
Nick:
Is this an intervention? Is she going to come out that door? Hey.
Rodney:
Yeah.
Nick:
Well, it’s been a great show. It sounds like we need to wrap this up.
Rodney:
Yeah, so that’s You work a bit.
Nick:
I’m just here for my therapy.
Rodney:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think it’s- I think our third episode together.
Nick:
That’s right. Yeah.
Rodney:
Yeah. I just think it’s tough, man. People, you know, there’s there’s something like 168 hours in a week you know you spend 40 or 50 of that at work and on top of your travel time for that and getting ready and, you know, unwinding and then putting the kids to bed, you might get an hour to yourself in the evening, you know? So I think it’s sometimes it’s hard for people to want to call a friend when they get an hour to them, you know, two hours to themselves.
Nick:
And, you know, that might be one of the reasons that my 2020 vision was so dumb because, you know, you you’d start we’d started talking back then and that was when I was working 100 hours a week trying to get this business off the ground. So of course the few minutes I had to like type out this, like here’s how we’re going to be great. Like I had stupid ideas. So what you said, Yeah.
Rodney:
You know, I commend you though. I don’t know. I really commend people who are able to kind of want to do these big things and then they do them. You know, that takes work. It takes commitment, you know, and and I think that the process that happens when we’re trying to reach those big things, you know, there’s a guy he’s one of these big sales guru guys. His name is Grant Cardone. You know, he says ten x your vision, you know, So if you want to make $1 million this year, you know, plan shoot for ten, you know, because you know, if you shoot for a million, you’re going to make 750. You know, if you shoot for ten, you know, you might you’re going to you’re going to be able to surpass whatever you think you can do. So I always commend when guys can do that. And some people are just wired that way, you know?
Nick:
Well, I mean, that’s probably how these businesses, like you said, started where they have these great ideas of nationwide networks. But I mean, I think what you’re also saying is, okay, so you accomplish something. You worked really hard for a while. Well, you need to take that break. You need to kind of pause. And again, that’s something I’m struggling with now that okay, you know, I no longer am using my personal savings for payroll. Sure. But at the same time, I don’t need to keep the same frenetic pace, especially in mental health, because the nice thing about what we do is that people often criticize those of mental health issues, but they have some of the most genius minds because they have to struggle with their brains all day long. So if they come into an office and they know everyone’s stressed and overworked and miserable, like they’ll know, oh yeah, you can’t hide it from them. I mean, it’s it’s okay for me because I don’t I’m a pretty transparent person anyways. I was never one of those nurses who could just smile and pretend to like somebody, but. And as a therapist, it’s the same thing. Like they will know.
Rodney:
Oh yeah, people can people sense what’s going on. You know, that’s kind of the emotional intelligence part about being able to pick up on when people are upset or frantic or, you know. But but it is about slowing down, too, You know, I think that’s why I hate social media. You know, I think they’ve sold the idea that people can be on all the time, you know, grind and hustle and you should you know, you wanted to build your business. You should. You have to. But I think at the same time, like to me it’s a zero sum game. You know, every hour I spend at work is an hour I don’t get with my son, you know? And so prioritizing that for a short time can be okay. You know, hey, I got to spend the next five years kind of building this I think is important because that lays the groundwork for what I want to do. But it’s okay that that changes too. You. I thought I wanted to have ten locations, but maybe I am okay with one, you know? That’s okay.
Nick:
Yeah. One of my best my other really funny Freudian slippers that you talked about earlier. One of my best friends, Dr. Milton Dragatakis. I just like saying his last name. He’s a pediatric dentist and that was the challenge that he had. Like I can expand my business and have ten of these or this is a very crucial time for my kids. And and it was nice that he didn’t just say, well, I got to do what I need to do for my kids. He made it into like a pros cons type of thing. Like he treated it as an important decision. Yeah. And spoiler he just still has the one location. Yeah, but it is important to like actually know what you’re giving up and is it worth it? And what will I do once I achieve it?
Rodney:
Yeah, I think that’s part of it. I mean, these online therapies, these, you know, kind of those kind of things, I what they do is they allow people to to not fully engage with the process. And and that’s all I tell people a lot of times is whatever decision you make, just make it intentionally. Don’t just fall into life. Don’t just fall into the decision that you make. So I have friends that work a ton and make a ton of money, but they might miss some baseball games. You know, I’m never going to miss a baseball game. That’s just me. I’m going to make less money, but I’m not missing a baseball game. And and so that’s a decision that I feel like everybody has to make intentionally. And so I think these online therapies and they give you again that illusion of kind of being able to say, well, hey, I can work, you know, 50, 100 hours and still kind of get my therapy at 10:00 at night when I chat with somebody online. But we’re not really doing therapy. Then you have some support then and that’s great. But and that’s what we need to maybe get through to that point where you can slow down a little bit.
Nick:
That was a good segway. Back to our topic because I’ll also planning one as we’re talking. But the other thing that you said about the authenticity of actually working with a provider that you know, So I think that’s my problem with it, that I feel that it’s almost like a tokenized system as you would almost like an Airbnb or an Uber or something where it’s like, All right, here’s some of my money. You’re not making me feel better. And it’s not that give and take and sometimes awkward interaction with a real provider.
Rodney:
Yeah, yeah. No, you’re absolutely right. I mean, when I. I’ve went on those sites to see what kind of was what a lot of it comes down to check boxes and an algorithm which isn’t how therapy happens that’s not how prescribing happens, you know. And so when somebody can hop on and they say, Well, I need a black therapist who’s LGBTQ friendly and, you know, checks these other boxes, there’s no opportunity there to connect. If I have a client email me, I say call me, you know, and we need to talk about what’s going on. And so people need that and really we cannot commoditize commoditize therapy. Yeah.
Nick:
And I mean and that’s why this is such a fun topic too, because as a black male therapist, you’re such a hot commodity and I’m just vaguely ethnic, so yeah, yeah.
Rodney:
Yeah. Ambiguous in ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s there’s not a lot of minority therapists out there. Very few minorities and and even fewer male minorities out there.
Nick:
Yeah, but but that’s exactly what you’re saying that a lot of times this is exactly what I need and I’ll deliver it to me. And it’s that cookie cutter approach that kind of fails us and a lot of those type of therapies. It is where the therapist is always on demand. And when I started the clinic, that was my idea. Like if you have a problem with pain or mental health, you can come to the clinic and I’ll be there and I’ll fix you. And I was like, Oh, this is a terrible idea.
Rodney:
Yeah, yeah.
Nick:
Because one of my teaching reliance like from a business standpoint, so one might argue that it would work, but obviously it’s unethical if you’re just teaching people that like you are their savior and nothing else can happen without you.
Rodney:
That’s exactly it. When I started, I was like, I’m for the people, man, so I want to be available. And but the problem is at that point I was prioritizing them more than everything became a crisis, you know? And and I also wasn’t teaching them independence, you know, So I gave that up. And I think, yeah, from a business standpoint, I at one time had an idea for a business called Night Owl Therapy where I was going to be a third shift therapist, you know, to people who needed third shift therapy, you know, and the point is I want to help people. You know, we want to be available.
Nick:
No, it makes sense because like you can tell them like, listen, I know you’re about to spend $100 on Amazon. Hold up. That’s right. Come see me. That’s right. And I’ll be 50 bucks. That’s right. And you won’t have this awkward explanation to your spouse. Like what? A third melon squeezer. What is this? You don’t even like grapefruit or melons or whatever.
Rodney:
Yeah, that’s right, man. So, yeah, so I think it’s just. Just about that. Yeah.
Nick:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because back to my original point about the, the Ketamine or same with stimulants or No one, I don’t think anyone has done like a benzodiazepine mail order, but it’s on its way if there’s any legality because obviously this and I should say this happened with opioids too that’s another reason I’m so against a lot of these. You know, McKesson, which is this is community TV so we can. Talk smack about. Okay. Okay. They’re not going to watch it. And this is all like this was a I think a $20 Million lawsuit. I don’t remember how many billions, but McKesson was allowing pharmacies in West Virginia to fill massive amounts of opioid prescriptions like thousands of cards would converge on these cars and would get all the opioids they want. And it was legal until obviously there are a lot of overdose deaths and litigation. And now McKesson is really hard to work with. So this has happened before where we’ve made it really, really easy to get things that should only be done with a face to face conversation like one of our other guests who, you know, Mark Gerritsen, the nurse practitioner, he won’t see patients unless it’s face to face for the first time. Like he’s like, unless I get that connection, like you’re not getting anything. And a lot of times like these are nuanced products, like in the case of Ketamine, like at our clinic, we decided, No, you’re doing it in here in the clinic where we can watch you. We’re not sending you home with anything. And there are still good arguments for these services because obviously it’s a competitor. So you’d expect me to be like, Oh, this is terrible, you need to see me. Only I can save you. And there’s there’s definitely places for it, but it shouldn’t be your go to or your first option when you’re still trying to see if a line of therapy or a line of medications is what you should be going for.
Rodney:
Yeah, I think that’s part of the problem is that we just want so much convenience, you know, and everything we do And you know, with therapy, I just had to tell a couple they were really on the brink of divorce and they wanted to be virtual, you know? And I said, I won’t see you guys virtual because if you’re on the brink, you need to be in here. I need to be able to see your body language. I need to be able to see the way you connect with each other, how know non-verbals, that kind of stuff. And I think the same is can be said for prescribing. You know, this shouldn’t be about convenience, you know, and I think that’s what we’ve made it about Betterhelp Talkspace you know kind of all these companies McKesson know it’s about convenience and what’s easy and and I don’t think change happens that way.
Nick:
Right, right. Because it was kind of convenient to slide into the issues that you had. So unfortunately, it’s going to be inconvenient. And now’s a lesson for me too, because the way some of the therapies we have at ASCEND works so quickly for patients. Yeah, you know, I’d send them home like you don’t ever have to come back. You’re fixed. Great. And now I’m realizing. No, the. The patients who do the best are the ones that will see them like once a month, once every two months. Like this sweet spot where it’s not this. Oh, yeah. I really have to see the face again. Yeah. Yeah, but. But at the same time it’s not a complete like you got this.
Rodney:
Oh yeah. No, that’s for me. That’s best practice in therapy too. You know, we if we if I start seeing you out a week and you progress every week and you progress really well, we move to two weeks and monthly and I might see you for six months, you know, once a month just to make sure you’re still doing well. And I think that model of just having that support there when they might not have it with medication or therapy really makes sense.
Nick:
And again, we’re not saying that it’s a terrible idea to use Betterhelp or Mind Bloom or any of these services, but you really should get a discount or a coupon to start. Yeah. And we don’t think that they’re long lasting. Like maybe it can get you through something, but you shouldn’t base what you need on. And I’m not even saying that the clinicians aren’t caring now, professionally speaking, they probably aren’t the best because they’re working for like a one of those type of organizations. But I mean, it’s a little arrogant to say no.
Rodney:
I would agree with you, though. I mean, what what I think happened with a lot of these where so many of these are venture backed firms that are the priority is profit, you know, and we’re all a business. At the end of the day, I need to make money. You need to make money, but not at the expense of our clients or our reputation. Exactly. Yeah. And so I think that’s what happens where you found clients or therapists or prescribers who were able to really say like, Hey, all I got to do is hop online and I can see 15, 20 people, you know, kind of whatever it is for your business in a day and make all the money I need to make, then great. And I think we’re seeing that now that when the decision is made, people can be greedy and convenience doesn’t lend itself to long term change, right?
Nick:
Absolutely. No, that makes a lot of sense. And part of that because so I said they might not be high quality, but I’m not high quality in that I could never really do a self pay practice like the Ketamine infusions are self pay but a complete self pay. I don’t have the mindset for it because I unfortunately I’m not like, Here’s your orange juice type of person. I’m like, look, let’s find a discount and get you better cheap and you can get out of here. Like I don’t have the right personality. I’m a little bit. So that can be part of it too, is that and this is a podcast on the Growing Yourself to Wellness podcast. I was on it yesterday. You should really check it out. It’s really fun. But we talked about self pay versus insurance and that was one of the themes that came out that a lot of times self pay actually saves money because it’s not the incredible amount of bureaucracy and cost associated with like, Wait, what’s your insurance? Why aren’t they paying this? Who can we call so that they’ll pay it? Yeah, but even that doesn’t always work well because of. The same issues where sometimes not the right personality or the right fit and it’s a quality of care versus customer service issue as well.
Rodney:
Yeah, I used to think that self pay was that self pay therapists were better. I like I used to think that I used to think, well, they must be so good that they could charge more money, you know? And really there’s kind of I don’t believe that anymore. What the truth is, is that some people just decide to take insurance, other people don’t. I mean, you make more money as self pay. And I think it’s probably true that there are good it’s true that there are good therapists on both sides. What seems to be true for self pay is that when you specialize in something, people will pay whatever for it. You know you’ll spend a thousand bucks on your iPhone because you believe it’s worth it. You know you’ll pay 150 bucks for a session if if I could if I tell you I could repair your marriage, you’ll pay whatever whatever I ask you to pay for, as you should.
Nick:
Because if you’re like $30. I don’t know.
Rodney:
And that’s exactly it. You know, so often sometimes the insurance kind of, you know, I worked for a good time with business owners. I worked with men. You know, my pitch was my pitch then was I worked with men who learned money doesn’t buy good mental health. That was my pitch. And but you’d see these guys who had the money to spend on this and and they would want to and they would almost look like they needed to be self pay, you know, kind of thing. And so ultimately I think you get good care with both. But I think the point is kind of what are you looking for in it? Because I do believe when you spend money out of your pocket, it makes you have skin in the game, right? You know, you’re not going to miss appointments as frequently. You’re not going to. You’re not. But I think a lot of that comes down to the therapist, too. You know, I always make sure that I tell my clients when we first start like, don’t bail on me before this gets good, You know what I mean? Like that first 90 days. I need you in here weekly so we can make sure we get the ball rolling.
Nick:
Yeah, because you’re right. You can find great clinicians in places where, like. Wait, what? Really? That’s. That’s where you go like, Yeah, I found someone that I like. I’m doing well and it’s the opposite to where sometimes you can go to some sort of posh like beechwoods known for their self pay mental health. Oh yeah. And it’s the same thing I have usually. The problem is though, when parents really want the best for their kids, that’s when it gets complicated. I feel.
Rodney:
Yeah, yeah. I actually tell almost all the parents I work with now if you’re not willing to put in just as much work as you’re asking me to put in with your child, don’t come because nine times out of ten, you have a lot of work to do too. That’s why we’re here. And so they might pay 150 or 175 to see their kid. But I quit seeing kids when I said I still see some now, you know, but but I would say like, hey, you know, the parent just wants to that mom and Beechwood, you know, who just wants to drop 150 to say like, hey, my kid needs to talk to somebody. And it’s like, well, this is a lot more work than just him coming in here once a week.
Nick:
And and we’re not just complaining about Beechwood like Pepper Pike. We’re looking at you too, Hudson.
Rodney:
That’s right. You’re on our list here. Yeah.
Nick:
But even even for my clinic, you know, we we’re in the Fairlawn, Copley, Bath area, and it was supposed to be when we first started again, not taking my personality into account. Unfortunately, there was supposed to be like this, you know, mostly self pay, the Ketamine infusions. But then over time I was like, Well, who really needs the care? And ironically, the people who are in most desperate need of care are those that fit between like Medicaid and Medicare and like insurance does anything for you. So that’s actually the gap in this country is where you have terrible high deductible insurance and that’s where you have to really make important questions about your health like, okay, what can I give up? Is this actually serving me? Is it not? And that’s again, where some of these therapy places can kind of put a Band-Aid on it if it’s online. But you really have to ask yourself like, am I getting better? Like, you know, And part of it is just finding a clinician who’ll be honest with you.
Rodney:
Yeah, I think that’s it. Sometimes you got to be willing to say, This is out of my wheelhouse or out of my depth or that kind of self pay versus insurance seems to be strictly a business decision at this point in time. You know what I mean? Like, but in terms I have clients that have insurance that might as well be self pay, you know, and and it costs them the same, you know, because of their high deductible plan basically the whole year. And so I think when we’re checking in with clients, I check in with all my clients and I say, Hey, I work for you. At the end of the day, we want to make sure you’re getting better. And so I’m checking in to say, are we on track? Are you are you where you want to be with this? Because at the end of the day, you might come in because you have a tough relationship with your mom, let’s say, and you might have to have some tough conversations. And if you don’t want to, then it might be time to end therapy, you know, and and if you’re willing to, then let’s talk about that.
Nick:
Yeah. So you’re saying like sometimes we can focus too much on the economic part of it. Like I’ve got a coupon, Rodney. I’ve got a coupon to see you. Nothing at all wrong with me, but I use this coupon. Darn it.
Rodney:
Yeah. I tell people don’t don’t let money get in the be the reason you do or don’t do therapy you know especially from like the discount portion. I see these ads for Betterhelp all the time. It’s like one month free or something like that, you know? And it’s like. That really to me is an ethical problem because if you don’t have the money or the insurance to do therapy, going to betterhelp for a month might help. I’m not going to say that it won’t, but but it’s certainly not going to solve your problems. And I would hate to start something with somebody and get in the middle of something like trauma and then we’re a month in and you’ve got to stop coming because we didn’t explore that.
Nick:
So the financial aspect of it, that makes sense because we are saying both and it is a bit of a nuanced approach. We’re saying like it’s okay to kind of experiment and see what you need and get a clue for it, but you also have to be aware of what it entails because that’s something with psychiatry. Of course I’ve said it many times that that’s the challenge of psychiatry is that how can I kind of dip my toe in the water without being on Zoloft for 30 years? You know, and these are honest questions that you should expect honest answers to.
Rodney:
Yeah. No, I think we owe it to ourselves to find what works. You know, my my counselor, the guy I see my psychologist is he’s 83 years old. You know, this 80 year old white dude. He was he was a psychologist before he even had to have a PhD. So he’s been he but he’s great. You know, he’s great. But I went through probably 3 or 4 people before I found him, you know, saying, here’s who I click with, here’s what I need, you know?
Nick:
And once you find them, that’s what you’re saying, that like you just got to stay with them. That’s all there is to it. So if you need if you are watching this and think you might need some help ascend health center.com is where we’re at ascend health center and then if they want to reach you what’s the easiest.
Rodney:
RodneyLongJr.com.
Nick:
And you can always find him on psychology today ask around everybody knows Rodney at least they should.
Rodney:
Thanks I.
Nick:
Appreciate it right or we can have some sort of like almost like a bat signal since we’ve already talked about avocados and melon squeezers. Right.
Rodney:
Just flash a flashlight in the air. Yeah.
Nick:
Just prepare your produce. Rodney will be on his way. Yeah. Thanks for joining us today for the show. Thanks.
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