How do we not cling to victim status, but still find a community who are experiencing the same hard things we are? Nick and Amanda discuss and define PTSD and ways to overcome trauma. Transcript below.

Hello and welcome to the Ascend Healthshow I’m Nick Angelis the owner of Ascend Health Center I’m a nurse andathetist and I’m here with Amanda from Carve your own Path

hey Nick how are you doing

I’m great–also neither of us are sick we may sound raspy we may cough a little bit no we’re not sick perfectly fine you’re not going to catch anything as you download this but we’re here to talk about Collective trauma and this will probably be a bi tmore advanced in some of our shows because for therapists people in mental health that’s a lot of who we’re talking to today but we might as well Define trauma first just before we get too technical for our own good

yeah and I think like trauma in general issomething that we’re finally starting to come around and realize like in research and everyday life like oh wow that’s a thing that has impact on people um so in my language without having a dictionary or APA you know reference in front of me trauma is um a normal response to abnormal events but it’s often not seen that way um so like our bodies can store trauma in a lot of ways so you and I could be in a vehicle and both be in the same car accident but how my body and my experience perceives that trauma can hold on to it differently than yours you might be able to walk away and be fine I might not want to be able to get into a car again for the rest of my life or you know until I get therapy to help me through that

absolutely and often it does take into account the community like a lot of times you won’t see PTSD or trauma after a hurricane as a whole community experiences it together and help each other so often it is something singular I mean that’s what we’re talking about today is collective trauma so that’s why it’s an interesting pointbut sometimes you’ll see a shared experience actually helps so you don’t develop the trauma or can get over it quicker as opposed to what our body’s naturally do which is to hide which is prob some sort of evolutionary thing you get an animal gets hurt in the wild they’re going to go in a cave and try to get better without getting eaten but sometimes as humans we have that same response

yeah like our brains are verymuch like a computer system except forour survival response way back here inthe back just never gets any updates orupgrades um so your body is alwaystrying to protect you it just sometimesin 2025 doesn’t get it right and you’reso right about the collective experiencelike one of the factors of traumahealing is the sooner that you canverbalize that experience to somebodyelse the less of an impact it has on youlong term so definitely important tocome together yeah there’s no amydala2.0 where you just get over that kind ofPrimal response because in my line Iwork as a nurse anesthetist when I’m notat a sent Health Center you know we justconsider trauma trauma one two or threewe grade them on like a car acent orsomething terrible where we’re knittingtogether someone’s bones but even aftersomething like that there still is sometraumatic response that even when I wasa nurse in the ICU I would alwaysrealize that okay this is an ICUpsychosis or we would just say oh justget them site consult they’ll be finebut even from like an actual physicaltrauma often the brain and the emotionsstill it takes a while to catch up andunderstand what’s going on yeah and andmedical trauma is a whole category initself right like someone might havebeen planning to have some kind ofprocedure and something doesn’t go rightor you know um I just think of likechildbirth you know like somebody that’splanning to have a natural birth and hasto have a C-section and there’scomplications you know all of that canbe traumatic for that individual rightand it’s also something where sometimesyou’re looking forward to something andthen it doesn’t happen it’s almost Imean the the obvious example is ifyou’re trying to have a baby and youcan’t that’s a very unique trauma that alot of people can’t understand becauseit never visualized but the way thatinsurance works if you are planning howthis proceeds you you’re nervous but youknow it’ll take away the cancer and thenthere’s some insurance hang up and youcan’t have it that day that can betremendously difficult I mean even todayat our Clinic a patient was supposed tohave spado uh the medicine didn’t showup so we did an injection of ketamineinstead because of that approach of likeif you expected something and you’re ina vulnerable state even if it’ssomething as minor as oh your insurancedidn’t do this or whatever it stillmatters so yeah and that can be griefinducing too which is just adding on thelayers there for you so is there since Italked about a really minor thing isthere such a thing as like a micr traumalike I don’t want to get into like amicroaggressions where uh in your worldit’s more of like you know it’s aconsiderate thing for me being ansomewhat inconsiderate person sometimesI’m like well occasionally there’ssomething you have to get over orsomebody just doesn’t know how to jokecorrectly yeah but is there a Mot traumacuz I use that phrase today for afirefighter that you see things all thetime so but I don’t know if I’m Legit ornot um I think that that would probablybe what we would categorize as likecomplex PTSD which um you know thediagnostic and statistical Manual ofmental disorders hasn’t yet come up withthe official criteria for although we dorecognize it as a problem and as aspecific type of trauma um and so a lotof times we’ll see that in likedevelopmental trauma so parentingexperience attachment issues um justthose kind of like small Nicks over whatis it what do they call it um Death By AThousand Cuts Cuts or something likethat right so that’s kind of where wesee complex ptsc which can really haveimpacts on like your personality and howyou view the world and how you cope withthings your relation sometimes I meanbecause emotions are supposed to beClues as opposed to the way we thereason that we do everything sometimesthey can give us Clues it’s like oh thisis starting to bother me like for me uhthe joke is around the office I don’thave a nervous system super rude I Iswear I have a sympathetic nervoussystem but I don’t get upset easily atall so like I have to realize oh Italked about this three times this meansthat it bothers me uh almost like aneurode Divergent person like having touse Clues to get at the obvious just howI’m wired out yeah so so let’s talkabout the actual Collective traumabecause I have the paper you are doing avirtual training on this I’m pretendingthat people can actually like pause anduse a QR code this is mostly just for mehaving a prop today but you are doing atraining on this on February 27th aboutCollective trauma uh so can you explainthat phrase even though we’ve alreadystarted delve into it yeah so umactually this is coming from I had theopportunity to um present at the umadops annual conference in October umand um on Urban minority BehavioralHealth and that was so well receivedthat I thought what perfect timing theworld’s a little bit on fire maybeeveryone can use this um so Collectivetrauma are those experiences kind oflike you mentioned it could be somethinglike a natural disaster a hurricane itcould also be systemic oppression itcould be um political um sociopoliticalclimate it could be um mass shootingsthings like that so where a bigCollective of people are experiencingthis and we’re seeing more and more withmedia expanding the way it is we now notonly have localized Collective traumaand then maybe what we might see like onthe evening news in other states andthings like that but now we have like247 access to all of these otheratrocities and things going on acrossthe world where now those are beingbrought into the collective experienceas well and it’s really shaking um youknow we’re seeing every single client Isee pretty much is coming in and talkingabout that they’re having a really hardtime coping with the world they’rehaving a really hard time navigating howdo I get up and go to work every everyday when I know these things arehappening that type of thing now isthere any room for just the Practicalpoint of maybe stick to like AssociatedPress or rooters or some newsorganization that’s a little bit lessbiased so you get just the facts cuz wecan all I remember this was 15 years agoI was listening to Rush limbal and hesaid I make my money because people whohate me really listen to this radio cuzwe all I mean especially today more soin 2025 we’re all addicted to dopaminelike any Rush whether it’s positive ornegative is going to get our bloodboiling yeah so is there any sense inlike maybe don’t pay as much attentionto the news yeah boredom doesn’t existanymore I don’t think um yeah and that’skind of like one of the go-torecommendations like from your therapistor from someone is going to be pleaselimit yourconsumption you know it’s valid thatpeople want to be informed and have thatinformation but news media Outletstypically have some sort of bias one wayor the other so yeah if you can find away to just like get small digestiblenuggets from a decent like I don’t knowif anyone can be unbiased but a decentlyunbias decently middle- grade Source umthat can really help but I know a lot ofpeople just like we’ll leave the TV onall day or we’ll just be Doom scrollingon social media and yeah yeah wellthere’s probably ways to pick the mediathat’s not going to affect you as muchand that might even be a personaldecision honestly of like this I’m finewith cuz I feel informed this is justtoo much because then I’m raging againstsomething I can’t control right so and alot of times in this climate too it’slike and all we’re seeing is theheadlines and then that’s justactivating activating activateactivating right and we don’t have achance to if you see like a gazelle thatgets away from being chased by apredator in the wild once they finallyget away they shake it off they likevisibly Shake right and so that’s howthey shake off their stress responseyou’re welcome you all got to see meshake um we’re just going to shimmy forthe next 19 minutes I forgot to set ourtimer anyway so we’re done in about 15minutes or something okay um I’ll justshimmy when it’s time for us to be donehere that’s going to be the signal butwhen you think about it like when youwatching or like scrolling Tik Tok oryour Instagram feeds or you’re watchingthe news like it’s just one Predatorafter another almost for your nervoussystem because it doesn’t it’s so old itdoes not understand this is just a newsstory it has lots of context it has lotsof variables right your survival braindoesn’t understand that it just takesthe context from that headlineAssociates it with your current view ofthe worldand then it says we need to be afraidand then you go into like paralyzationmode and that happens over and over andover again so yes we need that break toshake it off um go find Community tosupport each other um use your creativeOutlets connect with each other thatkind of thing cuz there are many newsoutlets that are 100% dependent on adsand so they will try to get you intothat response so you keep readingeverything so they get their money sothat’s part of it too right um althoughthe interesting thing is after they dotheir shimmy the gazel are like well Iescape guess I might as well eat rightso and that’s something that as humanswe’re not as good at yeah and that’sanother thing too is the stress responsepeople don’t understand your stressresponse in your body is a system justlike any other like your immune systemyour respiratory system your digestivesystem so it’s doing hard work it’sexerting a lot exerting a lot ofchemicals and getting a lot of processesgoing so when that finally comes to aresolve of course yes I’m hungry I needenergy I need to refuel right need toeat that yeah again just this morningbecause I’m coming to you after likehalf a day’s worth of work I had apatient where right before her firsttreatment she was like okay I Tremorlike this I went to three neurologiststhey say this is not relate to my mentalhealth at all this is a separate processand I said well you said you’ve worriedabout this for years I bet we’ll findout within the next few minutes and sureenough we in that case a spado treatmentso like half the ketamine molecule andshe was like this and today I saw heragain and she was still like this shewas like yep it was all anxiety theywere wrongI was like yeah that’s what we do we tryto find ways to quickly figure outwhat’s the source of something and thendecide what to do about it and I thinkyou’re kind of saying the same thingwith Collective trauma so I guess thefirst step is finding out am I in somesort of group that together we are uhkind of undergoing this sort ofsituation and we already talked beforewe started not in a oh can I please joinanother victim class that’ll be supergreat for me right it’s a middle groundbetween like I’m oppressed and like ohthis isn’t a big deal I’m not worriedabout this this this doesn’t affect meand that middle ground is so hard tofind when you’re constantly beingbombarded with more and more updates cuzI’m totally into like I’m fine it’s nota big deal that’s that’s where I fallyeah you it’s and it’s been a delicate Iwill say like Collective trauma is umone of those things like even covidright if we all go all the way back allthe way back like it’s weird it seemslike it was five years ago Co it’s stillhere I’m aware but the height of likethat pandemic and that was the firsttime for me as a clinician and I thinkfor a lot of clinicians where considerin transference and counter transferenceand considering boundaries and maybereferring someone out because they wereexperiencing something that you werealso experiencing right wasn’t really anoption we’re all going through the samething so how can I be unbiased how can Ibe a blank Sate right and so we’ve justpivoted and figured it out along the waybut then it just never really ended likethe world continued to have all sorts ofchallenges and Collective traumas andthe clients that we see are typically inalignment value wise right so they’retypically experiencing similar things soit’s definitely been something for ourfield where we having to Now navigatelike I can’t just refer everybody outbecause other therapists are also goingthrough it and if I refer out tosomebody that’s not going through itthat’s not going to be a good fit forthis client right so I just want to putthat there that like a lot of timeswe’re supposed to be seen as this likeblank slate and be able to separateourselves and you know now yourtherapist is also going through thatalongside you I think there’s advantagesthough because one of the good thingsabout Co was that it broke down some ofthose unnecessary professionalboundaries it’s like I don’t have anyproblems let me fix your problems rightand this is going to be a bit of atangent but since you brought it up sothere’s this economic report that saysAmericans are doing much better thananyone else in the world so it’s likewell why are we going through suchupheaval everyone’s complaining aboutthe economy I think part of it is thatCo made us all realize that materialwealth does not bring happiness and noone’s really come to grips with that yetI mean thanks to marketing people havemostly come back to like let me workhard and make lots of money so I’ll be ahappy mindset unfortunately but there’sstill that like the facade of like if Ijust do this then I’ll be happy if I dothis my employer will give me money andthen I’ll be happy like that’s all gonepeople won’t realize it but like thatidea that like if I participate in thiscapitalist Society I will be happybecause of it there will be shatteredfor my hard work yeah yeah yeah andthat’s part of the collective traumaI’ve seen it in patients as soon as theelection happened they’re like I’m soworried about my people and then uh Ieven wrote a big thing when Tik Tok wasgoing to be banned to all of ourpatients basically saying like if thisyou know if you’re feeling grief becauseyou’ve lost some connections maybe thiswas something that mattered to you ifnot you’re just going to do somethingelse or get on another app then maybeyou know make sure you keep this appdeleted that sort of idea of like isthis really your people or is it justsomeone you have something in commonwith where you can be miserable togetherand again those are questions that’sbetter asked to a therapist yeah findthat middle yeah I’m really glad you WRup Tik Tok because yes there’s all sortsof opinions but I will say like out ofanything Tik Tok really did in theheight of the pandemic when wheneveryone is like all of the unknowns theuncertainties the fears right we don’tknow what to do from the med like we’retrying to figure out what to do from themedical community all of that and itbrought everyone together and now youhave it’s created like parasocialrelationships and challenges with thatthat we have to work out but for themost part you could kind of control youralgorithm a little bit with you didengage with and you started to see ohI’m not alone this isn’t just me and fortrauma healing that’s exactly what’sneeded the more we isolate um thingslike anxiety depression mental healthissues substance use those Thrive whenyou’re isolated right because your headwill just start going into that rabbithole and you’ll isolate and you’llcontinue to deteriorate but when we cometogether and we say oh wait you feltthat too yeah let’s talk about it andthen you start right you know but youalso don’t want to like we talked aboutbefore you don’t want to be so engulf inthe when this is happening that you’redebilitated and you can’t take actionwhether that’s taking care of yourselfengaging in your community whether it’sbeing you know an advocate or signing apetition or going whatever it is rightyou’ll be so debilitated in fear andanger and frustration that you can’t doanything to make an impact well and it’snice too because it used to be you wouldwrite an angry tweet about somethingyou’re like huh I’m an activist now seewhat I did there but I think it ishelpful for for us to know like nopethat didn’t really do anything like takesome actionable step for your communityfor someone you love like that’s a muchbetter way to get involved if you don’tlike the way things are done yeah andagain realizing like okay uh I’m a nurseanesthetist I have no control overNational politics and I can read alittle bit and feel informed but I thinkbeyond that and I’m not helping myself Ithink a lot of people think you knowthey want to get involved and they don’tknow what to do and so I just keepreminding people like people like mepeople like you just going to work everyday we’re doing the work like that isenough if you find enough spoons thatyou can do something else like submitwritten testimony to oppose a bill thatI just did last night right or um finding a way to get together incommunity and have a craft day with yourfriends so that you can create arttogether and just be in community coollike go to your local food pantry servepeople whatever that is if you can takethat step to be a part of your communitythat is doing the work and those are allapolitical things too because you knowat a s we have this wide range where umI purposely like hired therapists whowould talk about Jesus to their clientswho are open to it and therapists whowould talk about aliens and psychedelics too there none of those all worked outc ompletely maybe I don’t need to bequite as diverse as it was but it itends up not being a political thingbecause like the white man in America isone of those that often feels Collectivetrauma but it’s just that loneliness Imean that’s why what you see with a lotof the shooters uh that it’s justsomebody who was l only got and why dopeople get radicalized because theydon’t have people to bounce dumb ideasoff of honestly it’s probably a betterway to say that but that’s honestly whathappens with any sort of isolation isthat you don’t have anyone to talkthrough your ideas and you don’t haveanyone close to you to be like yeahthat’s a dumb one and then you move onwith your life I mean I need that reallybad like multiple times a day eveneveryone at my clinic I’ll say an ideaand then I have them say like I knowyou’re the owner but that’s a dumb ideayeah and then I move on it’s really Imean at least for me I really enjoy itmhm yeah and when you talk about thingslike like the male loneliness epidemicabsolutely and we have to talk aboutlike why what contributes to that as faras like you know masculinity and men nottalking about feelings right it’s likeeven if they do have buddies they’relike I can’t talk to them about myfeelings but it’s all internal right andthen you said it just kind of isolatesand now we have this collectiveexperience and we need to do somethingabout it and like sometimes my wife willbe like who’s that one guy you playedbasketball with at church for the lastthree years I’m like oh I don’t know Ijust see him every single Saturdaymorning for two hours I don’t rememberhis name so yeah I’m my fault for thattoo yeah so how can someone tell if theyare in a uh group that’s sufferingCollective trauma because we don’t wantto make it to like oh you’re a blackperson you must have this Collectivetrauma or you have this or you identifythat way yeah um that’s a hard questionbecause I feel like the people that knowjust know right um and and neithershould someone like be like Oh I’msupposed to feel this way about that ohfor sure let me join the group whereeverybody else is doing it yeah sopeople that are like marginalizedsystemically historically marginalizedin oppress groups typically um ifthey’re aware of their status or they’vebeen made aware through like maybeEmployment Practices or microaggressionsor um we’re talking more about like thesocial political and like things likethat but obviously people would know ifthey were a part of like a naturaldisaster or um you know maybe they’renow the ones that are just like I can’tget off of like everything is aboutPalestine like I that’s all right likethey know they’re just taking in thoselike genocides and things so most peopleI think know um and if not they kind oflike have an experience that wakes themup to it and then they’re like oh wait aminute this is bigger than just myexperience other people have experiencedthis as well right so I think like itcould be one collective experience thathappened on a certain day okay like ahurricane or a natural disaster or amass shooting or something like that butit could also be one of those systemicthings where somebody finally realizedis maybe I’m having such a hard timebecause of all these things I justlearned about that have impacted me inmy community historically okay thatmakes sense so it’s not someone who’slike man they’re eyes out to get me likeI would see this when I worked as anurse there would always be one nursewho thought that everyone else got awaywith working less hard or got the betterdays off for vacation and we like nopenope you just like to complain andyou’re just really focused on thisthat’s why you’re seeing all thesethings because obviously since we’retalking about mental health andpsychology like if you try to findsomething you’ll find it in almost everycase yeah so it’s not a case where likelet me convince you that things are badfor you it’s just that if you feel theweight of all these systems then you doneed to reach out for help absolutelypartly through a therapist partlythrough finding others in your communityand finding out what to do about it onlike a micro level absolutely and I didwant to um this training is specificallytalk more about the training to yeah noit’s a continuing education specificallyfor behavioral health professionals ifyou need that lovely ceu for your lerhere it is for you and thank you foralways emailing me opportunities I sendthose to everyone I know too awesomeyeah especially when they’re free right we’re like yes that was something greatthat came out of Co free CEUs so many ofthem um anyways so it is driven in thatway professionally but I do have it opento the community as well so if you feellike you are somebody that is impactedby Collective trauma you work withpeople that are you’re just curious andwant to participate there is a a ratefor that as well so you can come andlearn more and I will uh make itpalatable for you absolutely yeah soagain is it easier for them to go to thecar paath website or what’s the best wayum if you find us on Instagram orFacebook um Instagram is @ cyop Inc umor Facebook carb your own path um you’llsee all the upcoming events and flyersand whatnot if you can see it it’sreally small but here it is if you wantto scan it on yourscreen um and then obviously anyone can give me a call um 330 426 7885 or email atus uh info@ cyop .org go to the website submit a contact us form um it’s hard tokeep all of our events updated on thewebsite because they’re going so fast sothose are usually on our social mediabut if you want to sign up or you have questions let us know we’ll probably post this too on the Ascend Facebook and things of that nature if you guys are familiar with that so yeah and if there’s like show notes we can alwaysput it in there too yeah and you guysalso do so you do therapy you do yoga, art therapy obviously events like this yeah um Lisa actually so Lisa she’s beenon the show as well she is we even had achair for her just in case you couldmake it she is also a licensed independent social worker she’s achemical dependency counselor she’sfinalizing her gambling endorsement ohum she that was that thing I told you about where I met with a 100psychiatrists to talk about spado for aweekend yeah that was one of the bigthings we talked about how like a whole generation of men is going to be impoverished by gambling and porn it’s a big problem it’s not something that people are like so let me tell you aboutthis problem I have you like to dig tofind it it’s one that’s hidden cuz we don’t talk about money yes yes good tangent love it thank you um but she’salso a yoga teacher and raiki master andshe was gifted a beautiful Crystal Bowl set for Christmas and so now we havesound bath uh coming up this Wednesdayyou can also find that on our socialmedia it’s almost full there’s only two spots left um but we’re going to try todo it pretty frequently and then we willalso be um kicking off a series of morecus and the year so oh and we’re going to start group therapy at a s tooTuesdays at 5: I don’t know when we’llstart it soon though at some pointo’clock that’s on point o’ clock that’smy favorite way of saying it um and then Lisa also does the EMDR for trauma therapy as well absolutely yeah thatwould be an interesting group toobecause again talking about Collectivetrauma just everyone dealing with it together so absolutely right well thanksthat’s all of our show today we’reprobably out of time anyways we usuallyare by this point yeah forgot to set the timer so thanks for joining us today thanks everyone take[Music][Music]care you are watching WCTV Wadsworth 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