I stood outside WCTV in Wadsworth, right next to the high school and YMCA. Do we really need a show on cannabis? It’s our 59th Ascend Health Show. Apparently the answer is yes, because I could smell it all around me while I waited for Dr. Brode from ‪Cardinal Crew‬ to arrive. Before leaving the studio to represent Ohio in the Mrs. America competition in Las Vegas, she spoke to us about her experience, now as a physician and previously growing up with a family member battling addiction. We discuss the latest research and the resources available if you or someone you love faces these challenges. Among those resources, Cardinal Crew’s gala is a wonderful evening that helps sponsor free telehealth resources from Dr. Brode, as she’s also a local family practice doctor with a wealth of knowledge about Cannabis Use Disorder and similar struggles.

Obviously, it can be hypocritical for a ketamine clinic like Ascend to warn about the dangers of an altered mind (those sent to the ER with cannabis-induced psychosis have a 240x greater risk of developing schizophrenia, for example). We mention how a controlled, medical environment with careful dosing is the best way to use psychoactive substances in the common situation of American healthcare’s conventional treatments failing patients. In many cases, it can be difficult to know what amount is helpful and when you are making an issue worse. This is why a solid social network (the real kind, not digital) is so beneficial. Essentially, you need family and friends close enough to say, “You’re smoking too much weed,” and defensiveness is often a sign of cannabis use disorder. Transcript below.

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Hello and welcome to the Ascend Health Show. I’m your host Nick Angelis. I’m a nurse anesthetist and the owner of Ascend Health Center and I’m here with Dr. Brode from Cardinal Crew.

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. This is uh such a dream to be on a show like this to talk about what I’m really passionate about. So just a little bit about me so viewers there can understand where I’m coming from and what I’m here to share about. Absolutely. I am a family medicine physician and I work for University Hospitals in Hudson primarily. And um outside of that part of medicine, something that I’m really passionate for is supporting families impacted by addiction. So my life growing up, I I witnessed addiction from the child’s perspective. My dad really really struggled with alcoholism for probably my whole like teenage years through my adulthood until he passed away in 2022 because of his addiction. And that really made us mad as children watching that. And so my sister Erica and I decided we needed to change how we look at addiction, how we treat addiction, and how we get those people the right support and help. So Erica and I created the Cardinal Crew. And this is our passion project. We love what we do so much because we came together and identified a a part in healthcare where there’s a huge gap and we wanted to fill that gap. So with the Cardinal crew, we host various community events throughout the year to show people who are impacted by addiction, whether they have the addiction themselves or that’s the family member that they see and watch struggle so much. and we bring them together to say, “Hey, we’re here too. We went through it. We understand you. Let’s do this together.” And then outside of that, one of the biggest things that we accomplished this year in 2025 was starting our telehealth wellness where we can actually provide free health care for those impacted by addiction. And again, we do both the person who can is struggling with addiction or their family members, right? because it really is a system.

We’ve had a lot of cases at Ascend Health Center where a patient will come in, they say, “Oh, we need a ketamine treatment or I need this.” And there’s been times where we said, “Actually, I think it’s your wife that we need to treat first.” Because the way American medicine works, it is, okay, here’s the one person. Everything focuses on them. But instead, we’ve noticed, no, this is a whole family unit. There’s a lot of people connected to this person. So we look at health almost like a Jenga tower where okay where is the one piece of wood that we need to take out of this whole situation where the problems will crumble and then we come up with solutions

and sometimes it is okay it’s the son or it’s a daughter it’s a husband or it’s the actual family dynamic there’s nothing that’s physically wrong it’s just the way that these people are interacting with each other that is exactly it so when I look back at my dad’s life and like what spurred all this in the first place like how did my dad have an addiction. Like, how could that possibly happen? I thought our life was like fine. I mean, we grew up in a in a a fine home. Like, we had great school systems. Everything that you that should be going right should have been going right. So, what happened? And when I look back and reflect on that, I think it really came down to how much he was trying to give but ignored his mental health the entire way there. He struggled with anxiety, depression, like so many of us do and we didn’t identify it and we we didn’t even know that he needed help. And so that’s where we saw it kind of all spiral.

No, it makes sense. And this has been good because this is the first time on the show that we spent an entire five minutes without me being silly or offensive, but uh that’s ending now. Uh, I had a patient yesterday who came in and we said, you know, his depression scores don’t seem to be high enough to qualify for Spravato. It’s like an intranasal ketamine. But I said, “Wait, this is a male construction worker who came in and no female dragged him here.” Like, this is a desperate situation. We need to talk to him and we’ll talk about what these scores mean. Like, he needs help because that’s not usually the case. You know, it’s like it’s like what they say in rural medicine where if a farmer comes into the ER, put some pads on him. He’s desperately ill. There’s just certain groups of people that just have been taught to tough it out and like I can do this. I’ll find something that will help me get through this pain, but I can do all these things.

That is exactly right. And like in healthcare, being in family practice, I see patients across all generations and different niches where yes, you can absolutely identify those people where if they’re coming in, you’re like, “It must be really bad.” And sometimes their numbers don’t match those criteria. And I think it’s because sometimes they learned how to like rationalize it in their own brain where like when you’re going through like a the PHQ9, the depression scale, and it’s like, “Well, how is your appetite?” They’ll find justifications for well, you know, I may have ate like 7,000 calories today, but it was probably because I was working out in the yard all day, so I probably needed that. But in reality, it might be something deeper that’s going on. Absolutely. And I’m one of those people. I had pneumonia once for 5 days until my brother dragged me to the hospital. I was like, “No, I’m fine. I’m taking nine grams of vitamin C. I know what I’m doing. I know all these supplements that will help me.” I was like, “No, you can’t walk without wheezing. You need to go to the ER.” What is it? I don’t understand that. Like why do you avoid health things? Do you think it’s because you’re in healthcare and you’re like, “Oh, no. I can I can treat it myself.” Or do you think, “Yeah, that’s I’ve got this.” So my dad interest like he fell off a ladder one time doing whatever the heck he was doing up on a ladder. And again, he struggled with alcohol addiction. So my guess is he was probably a few beers deep at that point. fell off the ladder and he was basically dragging his leg behind him. And we’re like, “Dad, like you need to go to the hospital. Like your leg is basically flopping around.” He’s like, “Oh, it’s fine.” And he’s walking on it. I’m like, “What kind of crazy person is this? That’s just walking on a broken leg.” And you know what? Reflecting back on on that with my dad, anytime he needed to go to the hospital, he didn’t. His reason was because he knew if he went there he wouldn’t be able to drink and then he’d go through withdrawals. So like for him that was his avoidance pattern but still trying to be that big burly man like I don’t need help. I can do it on my own. Right. And it segues well into what we’re talking about because originally we’re going to talk about cannabis for half an hour. But that is a substance that a lot of people take thinking well I don’t really need medical help. You know the THC or the CBD will help me get through whatever this problem is. And in some cases that is true that the way that cannabis works it sometimes can for some people almost replace a lot of specialists and a lot of doctor’s visits. But that’s not the usual case which is why we’re going to talk about it. And I think it’s such a good topic to bring up and I’m glad that you asked me to talk about this specific topic because it really isn’t talked about often at all and we kind of just bypass it. I told you before we started the show that a lot of times in in when I see a patient in practice, they’ll they’ll tell my medical assistant, “Oh, I smoke this much um marijuana on this day.” And we kind of just nod our head and say, “Okay,” and move on. We don’t really have a plan. What do we do with that information? Like, should we address it? Is this a problem? And I don’t want to offend anybody or make them trust me less just by saying something about their cannabis use. So very important topic just to shed some light on

and it’s challenging too because people will say well I do this for my mental health or for my pain and so I mean we see that because we offer and this is slightly hypocritical of me by the way because we offer ketamine infusions at ascend which uh the endocannabinoid system glutamate serotonin like it affects all these systems we’re like oh this is great I mean of course it’s medically directed and it’s you know in our clinic but so we’re not saying you should never take a substance that changes is way your mind feels. But at the same time, it’s kind of what you’re saying where you just it’s hard to say, “Oh, this is a good amount. This is a bad amount. You’ve crossed the line.” It’s just really difficult to elucidate that from just talking to a patient for a few minutes. It’s so true. And what you kind of touched on there is the control about it. Like you’re doing ketamine infusions very well controlled where you’re looking for specific reactions, interactions. It’s a very full assessment before you just say, “Here some ketamine, like let’s just see what happens.” people who are using cannabis are sometimes buying it from questionable sources if they’re not getting it from you like one of the um oh my gosh dispensaries that now exist out there but they could just be getting it from somebody who’s growing it in their backyard or somebody who bought it from somebody else and then it transition multiple people’s hands and what the heck is in it actually do you know what you’re getting because with cannabis it’s there’s two very important components it’s the CBD which a lot people use for like lotions and things like that because it’s extracted from it. But when you’re actually using cannabis from these questionable sources, how much THC is in it? Because that’s the psychoactive component of cannabis that usually is the culprit for the problems, right? And I think there’s a recent study where since 2000, the amount of THC has increased either fivefold or 20fold. It was the same study that said that uh if you are ever admitted to the ER because of some cannabonoid induced psychosis you have a 240 times greater risk of developing schizophrenia which I think is also true for psychedelics and a lot of these mind altering uh that the way they work in your mind once you unlock that gene uh you have a huge risk of and I had a personal friend who that’s what happened she used cannabis for her pain and uh within a year like I couldn’t even talk to her anymore or she was continually paranoid just had since then she hasn’t gotten any better. So it was a very clear you started this this is what happened. So, and again, we’re not saying that this is something that you should uh never use or consider, but in the case of ketamine, I dictate the frequency of it. And there’s many times where patients because it’s mostly self-paid, they’ll say, “Okay, here’s my money. I need another treatment.” I’ll say, “No, it’s not time yet. You need to go see your therapist. We need to do this.” Um, so for those who do use that is an important component of this is that uh you need somebody in your life who can tell you when you’re doing too much as well. And that’s often the challenge and it’s a cyclical challenge because it almost breeds loneliness where you don’t have those connections of anyone whether it’s a professional or just a friend saying you’re doing this too much. So it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where you start doing it for anxiety or depression but it eventually causes more of what it’s trying to cure which is why it’s so complicated of a subject of wait is it the cannabis that’s doing this or do I need more of it because I still have anxiety and that can be a very difficult puzzle to unravel. Sometimes it can be and I think too um there’s and this isn’t always this isn’t every person but a lot of times I’ve noticed that people get defensive about the use too where it’s like no no that’s not the problem like the cannabis is not the problem here like it’s clearly something else that’s going on and I feel like it’s very close-minded or they get closed off to the idea that maybe it is actually the problem that we should address. So, it’s it’s the whole mental health aspect and and where you’re talking about like these these genes being unlocked or being triggered because of the cannabis use. That is something that’s always been super interesting to me because it can be one use where you happen to have too much THC or just enough THC for your body where it triggers that dopamine release in your brain and now all of a sudden you are struggling with a mental health disorder that honestly may not have been that bad, may not have happened that soon or could have just been completely avoided. So it it’s it’s kind of a scary thought to think that one day you’re fine and the next you could just have schizophrenia, right? Yeah. And and that is a fairly new medical concept. I’ll explain a little bit more. So we all have genetic predispositions to all sorts of maladies and then sometimes emotional trauma can bring on something or physical trauma or what we’re saying about cannabis. So it it doesn’t mean that you’re a walking time bomb with all these terrible things, but in many cases, so for example, we see a lot of uh I guess the acronym syndromes would be a good way to say it like PCOS, EDS, uh POTS. There’s a lot of very complicated medical disorders like we have a patient right now who um is debilitated from mold and it’s led to all these different disorders. I actually told her to watch all of her videos so that she can decide which functional medicine doctor to go to since I’ve interviewed a couple of them here. Um, and this is just one more thing that can unlock almost the way like a toxin can unlock and cause a lot of problems. It doesn’t mean that it’s you have this forever, but it does mean it’s usually a very long path backward to health once you start messing with this stuff. That’s right. And then the importance there too is like do you identify that it was that particular substance that caused or triggered this? And because I know a lot of people who again like kind of going back to that whole thing is the the defense or the avoidance of like no no that wasn’t actually the trigger. This is supposed to be helping me. And so then it can even delay that further for getting back to your normal health because now you’re down this pathway and you continue to use just to try to get rid of it. but in reality it’s contributing to it. So my advice would be now that it’s 2025 there are a lot of substitutes that maybe weren’t available for years ago whether it’s for anxiety, depression, pain. Uh cuz a lot of what we do at my clinic is will find someone and find a way so they will stop their cannabis use completely. Let their brain uh almost repair itself and then we can make an informed decision. Okay, is it okay to bring some back in or do we not need it anymore? But until you stop it or it you just really don’t know what’s going on. That is so true. Do you find in your experience that uh people who do completely stop and then when you do that informed decision-m moving forward, how many people end up going back and then how many people end up doing better the second time around? Right. Um I think if we’re just using medication or therapy, then they usually have to just stop and do other things because it’s so fixated. It’s we’ve had cases where we use the ketamine for addiction. I don’t do this as often now because it is really risky honestly. Um but it it kind of changes the brain so it’s not as prone to addiction so that rather than a complete sessation they can sort of uh slowly go back and use it for what it’s intended to like maybe the first few months when they when cannabis had a use for them depending on you know what their disorder is. Usually I see a lot more problems when people are trying to use it for anxiety and depression as opposed to pain. The people use it for pain. Usually they’re a little bit older. They’re using in conjunction with other things and it’s not as fixating. But for whatever reason, this is a substance where if you use it for anxiety, it’s not quite as bad as benzoazipines where gradually your anxiety gets even worse because you’re on this addictive drug, but it’s still not good. So very true. I I think I tend to agree with you on that where people who are using it for the anxiety, depression aspect of their health that they also struggle to reintroduce it later on too because it almost has that same pathway of triggering in their brain to to with that the whole dopamine pathway with all the other neurotransmitters that are going on. So I find that to be the case as well. Uh I and I I I don’t want to speak for you, but would you say that in my opinion the best way to kind of help through anxiety, depression, it’s multimodality approach really, but like the lifestyle and what you’re doing on a day-to-day basis and like finding time for exercise or some kind of movement that can help you feel better. Yeah. My philosophy is more so we find patients in survival mode and then as soon as we can get them out of that, then they can make rational decisions. And one way we can tell that they’re much better is when we offer something helpful for them and they decide not to do it because they don’t need it. So like the way that all of us uh I don’t want to speak for you, but maybe I should eat better, exercise more, and maybe I won’t cuz I don’t feel like it. So having that ability to not be in survival mode, which spend all your money, do all the things, go to multiple appointments, but say, “No, I’m actually good right now. I realize I can get a little bit better if I do this, too, but I don’t have to.” That’s like a very good place to be at when you have anxiety or depression. So sometimes we will start with one thing we do is transcranal magnetic stimulation. Um it can decrease depression and then we can start adding in all the lifestyle changes because it’s almost like a like a slow snowball effect where okay I see some change so now I’m willing and have the fortitude to continue down this and see what I can do by myself. Um, and that I think ends up with a lot healthier and that way they’re not because we don’t want to trade addictions. That’s, you know, instead of Danny down the street who wears his hat backwards, now you come to me every week. Like, what’s the point of that? I mean, Danny doesn’t have a copay. It’s not this complicated insurance thing. So, what are we doing here? So rather than just trading one vice for another, it’s more of like, okay, how can we slowly use something powerful to get you better and then slowly withdraw that so that what you’ve learned on your own through therapy, that’s the main tools that you’re using and something stronger that can affect the way your mind processes. That’s more of okay, every once in a while I need the hammer. Cuz I feel when we’re talking about cannabis use disorder for a lot of patients, and again this will be rude, it’s like they’re trying to use a Phillips screwdriver to sand their deck. like I don’t know why this isn’t working. This is such a great substance. I mean, we see it with diets, too. Someone will will want to be vegan and then their health falls apart and they’re refusing to admit, okay, this isn’t working for me. And then somebody else wants to go paleo, but that’s not working for them. Like, sometimes we have to give up these health principles we have when we’re confronted with reality that, oh, this actually isn’t doing what I thought it would do. I I uh so you sent me some some notes and tidbits and one of the things that I really hung on to was that whole Phillips head screwdriver trying to sand a deck and I was like that is actually a really great analogy. I probably tried it. I’m a terrible handyman so I that may be that came from real life experience. I was looking at I’m like who would even try that? That’s what I first read when it was you. Okay. Um but then I was like wow that is what exactly what people are doing sometimes when they turn to different substances is and a lot of times too I come back to the whole whole um concept that people who end up struggling with any of these substances they never set out to be somebody that wants to struggle with these substances. It’s usually coming from that point of desperation like I’m in survival mode. Please give me something to make this better. Please give me something to make this go away. And that’s where they get trapped almost. So, how do we start breaking people out of that trap is something that I think about honestly probably too often or more often than the normal person of how do we dig people out of the traps? And I think it also just really comes back to my childhood and trying to dig my dad out of that trap that he had been in for so long. And I think that in my opinion the best way to do that is to have this exact conversation and not just with you know health care professionals here but with our patients, with our family, with our friends and be willing and open to discuss the the benefits that people get from these substances, but also those potential downfalls. And but to realize that sometimes it’s a health care system that is a trap. Like none of this is meant to say, oh, how could you try to use marijuana when there’s so many great medicines out there? Usually the patients I confront, they’ve tried so many things, wasted all their time and money. And so it’s actually a reasonable answer for their issue. It’s just that it’s a difficult one to tame sometimes. So it’s not that, oh, this was a terrible idea. Why did you go to this? It’s like, no, I probably would have done the same thing in your shoes, but how can we now find alternatives? So I actually when you say that and like they’ve tried multiple medications. One patient in part, I mean there are many patients that struggle with this, but one patient particularly comes to mind and I love seeing her in the office because yes, she is really struggling. She’s down. She’s depressed and she’s trying so hard to break break out of that position and my gosh, she has the best attitude about it because she comes in every single time. I think we’re on medication number seven for her and she’s just like, I think one of these days we’re going to get it. And I’m like, I sure hope so, but I’m going to be willing to be within this fight with you because I really want to see you succeed. So, yeah, I can see patients being in her exact position and they might not be in such an upbeat mood considering everything that they have going on. So, like, bless her heart for being so so optimistic or like I guess trusting me. I’m not sure what it is. what caused her to be so optimistic and upbeat about it. But I could see how somebody in her shoes would be like, “All right, seven meds. Are you serious? Like this is a joke at this point. Like all these things that I’m reading online about medications and pharmaceuticals must be right and they’re all garbage. Why should I even try number eight when seven are have done such a poor job?” and then and she hasn’t, which again, bless her heart for being such a a a trooper and a warrior, but she hasn’t turned to those outside um outside substances. And I think part of her story, and I don’t like speaking for patients at all, but she actually witnessed a a family member struggling with substance abuse, too. And so, I think that she actually saw that picture and what was happening with with her loved one and was like, you know what? But if it takes 8 n 10, I’d rather have that than to go down the same pathway as my loved one. And it’s reasonable, too, because we already talked about genes unlocking. Um, a lot of times in our clinic, we do treat families and we’ll start with one and, oh, like the ketamine infusion worked really well for you. It does tend to work for the rest of the family, too. And it’s the opposite is true, too. Okay, I saw that my sister really struggled with cannabis, then I won’t go anywhere near it. So, I mean, it sounds terrible that we’re saying, “Okay, one member of your family needs to be a guinea pig and then y’all will know what not to get into.” From a provider standpoint, though, I love it because it acts as like a cheat sheet for me. Oh, my brother did this and oh my gosh, that was the worst side effects I’ve ever seen. I’m like, great, cross it off. Not even going there, let’s just move right past it. Yeah, cuz there’s plenty of genetic testing that you can do. Gan site, Tempest, even 23 and me, but sometimes just seeing what somebody did and learning from it is very helpful. curious how do you feel about the genetic testing that’s out there for like the different medications that you can use for mental health conditions? Uh so some of it and again this is community television so we can say whatever we want. Some of it is a ripoff in that it’ll just tell you I’ll use Prestige. It’s SSRI that doesn’t matter if you have MTHFR deficiencies or any of the uh problems with your liver enzymes but that doesn’t mean it’s going to work. But especially, so I usually try to think of myself if I knew I was going to lose insurance, for example, and that they would pay for this. Absolutely. In my case, I got 23me data, uh, took it through some other websites to find out all the genetic information, and it did lead me to using a few supplements. I realized I don’t have DAO. I have a histamine issue. I don’t I talked about uh syndromes earlier that have a lot of acronyms. MCAS is mass cell activation disorder that a lot of patients have. And um so I don’t think I had that specifically, but I was able to take some supplements and now I can eat Mexican food easier. So sometimes even little things do help. So if you’ve tried a lot of um different medications, you’re not responding right, then that does help. But it also helps for people to realize, oh, I’m not normal, and a doctor will come in, have a two-minute appointment, and give me the first medication they usually give to patients. I do need to advocate for myself that, hey, I’m I know we also like to feel very special in America, like, oh, that won’t work on me. I’m extremely special. But it is helpful to have a little bit of background of okay this might not work normally. I might there’s a new study that just came out that said rather than increasing dose of psychiatric medicines in many cases decreasing the dose will actually lead to better efficacy. Which makes sense cuz today the the usual approach is oh that didn’t work and you have side effects. Let’s try a little more see how that goes. That does happen. And then what also happens thereafter is then it’s like oh that one’s not quite working so let’s add another one but never take away what was already started and then you have these patients who are are struggling with polyfarm pharmacy which is when you’re on multiple medications at the same time and a lot of times they can have interactions down the road that we might just not be actively thinking about because we kind of glance at it like oh that was in the past so we can just shove that down to the side but like here keep keep going with some more. So that does uh go right to your point where sometimes it is kind of like stripping things back and like let’s maybe start with a cleaner or fresher slate to see if that’s the answer. And it’s so bad that at our clinic patients will come once a week for two hours they need a ride home and do a spat treatment rather than be on all those medicines which to me at first I thought well no no patient’s going to do this long term but when they weigh the pros and cons like no I actually need to be off four more meds and I’ll do this instead. So, it is interesting, but we only have a little bit of time left. So, what’s your next event? Don’t you have a gala coming up or something? We do. So, what’s really exciting is one of the our fundraisers that we host to help support all of our goals with teleaalth and such is a gala. And um what I shared with you earlier and what I’ll share with all of you is I’m actually Mrs. Ohio. So, a pageant girl at heart. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Going off to Mrs. America this week. So, wish me luck. It’s going to be a good time. Uh, but I say this only because one of the things that we also did and because we have a little bit of insanity in our family, too, is we put a heck of a lot of events all in one day. So, we’re actually doing the Northern Ohio pageant, which rolls right into our Wings of Compassion gala. And so, the the pageant aspect of things came from my love for pageantry and everything that I’ve gained from it. But what we do with our our pageant title holders. Uh, so Mrs. Northern Ohio, Miss Northern Ohio for America, all of these title holders, they beca become like our boots on the ground, the people that are really going to talk about our mission, get the word about the Cardinal crew out there, and then be at these events and help us spread the word for what’s really truly important to us, which is helping families impacted by addiction. And so after we crown our new title holders, we roll right into the fundraising gala. Um, this year it’s October 25th at Music Box in Cleveland. Mark your calendar. Absolutely. And we have this year a amazing keynote speaker. She’s actually a pageant queen herself. She is Mrs. American 2021 Hannah Kirkpatre. And she actually struggled personally with addiction. And so she’s going to share her experience through everything that she uh with addiction that she happened to do and then how she kind of trailblazed her recovery and came out on the other side. And so I know it’s going to be a very inspiring talk. But then furthermore, we have um the dueling pianos Cleveland keys coming. So we’re it’s going to be a fun time regardless. Great. But all of this is just to share that mission. So that’s the next huge event that we have going on. And people should just search Cardinal Crew and they’ll find all this. Is that the easiest way? Cardinalcrew.org is our website. And so all of our event information is on our website. We do still need some pageant contestants. So if you are out there and you are thinking, you know, pageantry might not be for me, I just dare you to give it a try because it is something that has changed my life tremendously. It gave me like this power to talk about my dad’s addiction because before I kind of like hid away from it because honestly I was embarrassed and that’s there’s a stigma associated with it. Absolutely. So pageantry gave me that power to do exactly this. It gave me interview skills where I can sit here, look you in the eye, and tell you my whole life story without even thinking twice about it. So it really takes the fear out of interviewing. Uh it also helped me with my medical school interviews. I felt so confident going in and interviewing for probably the scariest interview I’ve ever had in my life. And uh that came from pageantry. So if you are just looking for something to get out of the box, we need contestants from starting at age five all the way up to there’s no cut off at all. So we’ve had 60 plus year old women competing and it’s so much fun. You get to make friends, have a sisterhood, have mentorship in all of that involved too. So and not to overshadow your gala, but what we’re doing at Ascend Health Center is uh a free library. So, we’ll have some books probably out on a picnic table or something. And you can find out about us at ascendhealthcenter.com. Psychiatry, counseling, ketamines, bravado, TMS, all that good stuff. Um, so thanks for being on the show. This has been great. Thank you so much for having me. It’s really been such a delight. Absolutely.

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