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Yoga and Addiction

Therapist, Yogi, and Reiki Master Lisa Shaefer, LSW, LICDC-CS, RYT-200 from Carve Your Own Path, here in Copley, discusses yoga and addiction with nurse anesthetist Nick Angelis, MSN, CRNA. There’s a continuum in mental health between simple movement and posh inpatient rehab retreat facilities. As we continue to delve deep into spiritual topics on Ascend Health Show at the Wadsworth Community Television studio, common threads emerge. You’ll recall our last guest, Sonic Shaman, today’s energy practitioner, or, for our next show, a Christian trauma counselor from our friends at Renew Counseling Ministries.

There are plenty of yoga studios in Fairlawn, Akron, and for that matter plenty of rehab facilities, like our friends Safe Harbor in Norton. Lisa and Nick talk about practical movement tips anyone can use to help center themselves and understand their behavior. What do you think? Transcript below.

0:11I’m one of the owners of Ascend Health

0:13Center and I’m a nurse anesthetist and

0:15today we have Lisa Schaefer who is with

0:18carve your own path she’s a therapist

0:20she’s a licensed independent chemical

0:22dependency

0:24counselor she is a Reiki master and

0:27she’s a yogi welcome to the show thank

0:29you Nick thanks for having me here did I

0:31say all the things you said all the

0:32things perfectly yes if I should have

0:34written those down but that’s fine

0:35that’s okay so we’re going to talk about

0:37yoga and addiction which don’t really

0:40have much to do with each other but

0:41we’ll try to make it fit and do some

0:43Segways and analogies and Transitions

0:45and see how it goes but starting with a

0:48topic of addiction

0:49there’s a troubled teen industry that

0:53we’re both familiar with it’s probably

0:54billions of dollars in the US hey my

0:56kids acting up here’s some money fix

0:58them so why can’t we just send troubled

1:02people to rehab centers and call it a

1:04day because I mean they call my clinic

1:05all the time telling me hey if anybody

1:07needs to go to Florida or to remote

1:09places in Ohio just send them in we’ll

1:11fix them so why yoga

1:14so that’s a really interesting question

1:16and I will do my very best to interweave

1:20and show how they’re very connected

1:22because what we know about the research

1:26right now is that addiction comes from

1:28disconnect so when we are looking for

1:31connection we want to bring in the

1:33family we want to bring in parents and

1:35bring about that connection for

1:37everybody and then with the individual

1:39we want them to connect to their

1:42intuition and not have to feel as though

1:45they need to seek outside of themselves

1:47to find Comfort to find peace even to

1:52find connection that makes sense so it’s

1:55more of empowering I know when we first

1:57start our Clinic I had the idea that it

2:00would almost be an ER for mental health

2:01and we still can be that for pain where

2:04if patients have a flare-up of

2:06fibromyalgia they’ll call and schedule

2:08an appointment and we’ll do a ketamine

2:09infusion but then I quickly realized

2:11that for mental health

2:13it doesn’t work that way it can’t be

2:14like hey this is a bad day can I come in

2:16and get fixed that I mean it sounds

2:19great from like a business standpoint we

2:21were talking before the show about how

2:22Insurance Works where the whole system

2:25is meant to keep patients coming back

2:27and back and each time we build their

2:29insurance and this is never-ending

2:31promise of incremental Improvement until

2:34their benefits run out or something but

2:37instead with yoga you’re saying it’s

2:38something that the patient themselves

2:39can control it’s an inward thing yeah

2:42and I think you know bringing up

2:44medication medication is appropriate at

2:47times and some people absolutely need

2:49medication to help manage whatever their

2:53symptomology is however if you have a

2:56person who’s depressed and they’re

2:58continuing to do behaviors that keep

3:00them in that depressed state they can

3:03take as much Wellbutrin or what other

3:05medication that they’re taking and it’s

3:08only going to offer so much relief

3:10whereas when we go Inward and we look

3:12get what are those triggers or we look

3:15at what are the things that I’m not

3:17doing for self-care so you know halts

3:20hungry angry lonely tired is very

3:23um

3:25known within the addiction world of you

3:28know I’m checking these things off to

3:29make sure you know what am I not giving

3:31my body that it needs and so have you

3:34had water today and you know maybe it’s

3:37you’re dehydrated or maybe you haven’t

3:39eaten and you know maybe you’re tired

3:42because you didn’t sleep well the night

3:43before and you know goodness sakes if we

3:46have at least three of those things of

3:48you know then we’re feeling disconnected

3:50from ourselves and from other people

3:52especially and you know those famous

3:55Snicker commercials right where it was

3:57like you’re acting kind of out of sorts

4:00so you know eat something but you know

4:03doing those basic things again honoring

4:07your intuition and honoring you know

4:10what your body needs and doing the

4:13things that aren’t always the easy fixes

4:15or aren’t always the easiest

4:18thing to do especially when we talk

4:20about like setting boundaries with

4:22people and setting boundaries with that

4:25impulse control

4:27well that makes sense because that’s

4:28something I’ve had to tell my patients

4:30that hey there’s a few ways that we can

4:31probably help you I doubt any of them

4:33are easy and I doubt any of them are

4:35instantaneous and usually if it is

4:37instantaneous it also doesn’t last long

4:39because you know one of the things we do

4:40are ketamine infusions and there’s cases

4:42where a patient has one infusion and

4:44everything changes and that’s actually

4:45when we’re the most like no actually you

4:48really need to follow this up with

4:49therapy because a whole identity change

4:51when you have all these subconscious

4:54behaviors that sometimes try to protect

4:56your brain from trauma like this is

4:58something that we have to explore not

4:59just okay I’m better thank you Jesus

5:01let’s go because speaking of the whole

5:04uh so last night I went to this church

5:07meeting it’s like a marriage conference

5:09and they’re talking about there’s a

5:11Bible verse that says let not the sun go

5:13down on your anger and like oops that’s

5:15true but sometimes you’re not going to

5:17solve it late at night when you’re tired

5:19and angry and in the morning it’s

5:21usually it’s like oh that wasn’t as big

5:24of a deal

5:25so even with the drinking water like you

5:27can’t get into trouble while you’re just

5:29stopping to drink water you know you

5:31can’t text someone something you

5:32shouldn’t while you’re also drinking

5:34because you’ll get water on your phone

5:35and it’s just going to be a mess yeah

5:37and I think you know looking at

5:39unfortunately our culture which is that

5:41you know keeping up with the Joneses you

5:44know that that drives this addictive

5:46nature and the need for immediate

5:49gratification well there is zero

5:52mindfulness in any of that so if I’m

5:55always planning for the next thing I’m

5:57not sitting here tapping into my body

5:59using My Five Senses you know

6:03um seeing the things that are around me

6:05hearing the things that are within the

6:07scope of my environment you know what

6:10can I smell how does how do the clothes

6:12on my body feel you know we get up every

6:14day and I’m sure you probably had some

6:17thoughts about the outfit that you chose

6:19to wear today but you know do we pick

6:20things with intention you know because

6:23we like the way that it feels against

6:25our skin or it’s a comfort item you know

6:28one of the things that I love about

6:29working from home is I have my therapy

6:33blanket over my legs you know so that I

6:35can kind of wrap up when I’m chilly and

6:39you know regulate my own temperature in

6:41those moments and so again like what are

6:44the intentions and how do we tap into

6:46our five senses and yoga is the perfect

6:50place for that to happen in and on your

6:53mat okay that makes sense so in some

6:56ways is it almost like a healthy

6:58regression to Childhood so my

7:01three-year-old niece she’ll she used to

7:04just cry and scream like toddlers do but

7:07my brother and sister-in-law are very

7:08wise and they taught her like stop for a

7:10minute think of what you need so she’ll

7:12get tired and then she’ll be

7:15blanky and so she’ll get her blanket and

7:17she’ll start calling with it and she’ll

7:19think I can see her like mine working

7:20like do I need something else

7:22to see be and they’ll give her a

7:24pacifier and she’s fine yeah so I’m like

7:26oh I I need to do this yeah and and I

7:29think that’s a really great example as

7:31well because at a very early age she’s

7:34being taught how to identify her

7:37feelings how to identify what she needs

7:39as being told you don’t have anything to

7:42cry about

7:43um you know you can’t cry because you’re

7:46a boy or you’re out in public and you

7:50know kind of making a mess at Target

7:52because that’s the Barbie or the toy

7:54that you want and now you’re having a

7:55meltdown about why you can’t have what

7:58you want yeah well it’s really good so

8:02we should like distribute blankets to

8:03everyone yeah is it so is it more the

8:07philosophy of yoga or the movement that

8:10you think helps the most I mean I know

8:11it’s all intertwined like yeah it is all

8:13intertwined and I and I don’t think that

8:15I could pick out one or the other

8:16because when we’re looking at trauma and

8:19how it’s stored in the body then when we

8:22are in movement we’re releasing those

8:25stored

8:27synapses those stored memories and so

8:31that we can release it

8:34um and that’s not to say that like for

8:36example somebody who does then have an

8:38autoimmune disorder like fibromyalgia

8:40which they’ll have flare-ups and you

8:42know it’s again kind of having that

8:44intuition of what helps my body and then

8:47when I do have these

8:50um

8:50increase in symptoms what can I do

8:53that’s going to give me the most relief

8:55right and that makes sense because we do

8:58a lot of pain management and some of

8:59nurse anesthetists and it’s difficult

9:02because you know medical director’s

9:04psychiatrists my nurse practitioners is

9:06trained in Psychiatry so we think well

9:08how are we going to do this if this is

9:10just a pain problem and there’s no

9:12mental health related but what we found

9:14is probably about 75 percent of those

9:16patients actually don’t treat their pain

9:18I’ll start with a ketamine infusion

9:20which is a lot like EMDR where it forces

9:22you to see trauma it rips away any

9:25facade that you have in your life and

9:26then a lot of anxiety and depression

9:29will manifest and we realize no we need

9:31to work on this that if we can prevent

9:33you from catastrophizing your pain if

9:36you’re

9:36know how to react to it and your whole

9:39body doesn’t go in Red Alert as soon as

9:41you feel twins of pain then you’re

9:42actually much better off and obviously

9:45that the treatment’s also shorter and a

9:47little bit easier if we’re giving

9:48smaller dosages and if we’re like no we

9:51Must Destroy every fiber of pain in your

9:53body and so I’ve had patients where like

9:55you know what this hasn’t helped my pain

9:57but I’m actually good like my anxiety

9:59that I didn’t even know I had is better

10:00my depression is better so let me work

10:02on this and then I’ll let you know if I

10:04need to come back to deal with the pain

10:05yeah and I think that kind of

10:08recognizing the Bittersweet in that that

10:10we’re all going to experience pain

10:13physically pain emotionally and how do

10:16we walk through that because even people

10:18who are recovering opiate addicts who

10:21have a very low tolerance for pain

10:23afterwards like how do you cope with

10:25that when you stub your toe and it feels

10:27like you really broke your foot and I

10:28don’t want to diminish that experience

10:30from someone but how do we talk

10:32ourselves through that experience so

10:34that it doesn’t become a trigger to Old

10:37behaviors right and that is something

10:40that works for everyone because I’ve

10:42done some talk with churches about do

10:44you need Jesus or xanax which is a

10:46really fascinating tangent that we won’t

10:49quite go down today but a lot of times

10:51that’s the feeling of like this hurts so

10:53bad what can I do or this is so

10:56overwhelming and it is easy to like

10:58reach out for a pill or reach out for

11:00substance especially if your brain

11:02already has an ingrained that okay

11:04here’s a stimulation here’s the way I

11:07deal with it but what you’re saying is

11:09if you have a philosophy of let me

11:12understand these feelings and deal with

11:14them and just sit with them for a minute

11:16then you’re less likely to just react

11:18and immediately try to take the pain

11:20away regardless of the consequence yeah

11:22because cravings and triggers pass

11:25know they don’t last a long time if we

11:28don’t feed into the thought processes

11:32that are part of that right so that’s

11:36where you know DBT CBT EMDR those kinds

11:41of

11:42therapeutic modalities can kind of come

11:44in and help

11:46redesign the way that we think about

11:49um our experiences and then how that

11:52trauma kind of comes back up when we are

11:54triggered

11:55so that curve your own path how do you

11:57make that decision because I know you

11:59guys have a lot of different modalities

12:00that’s why we like to work together but

12:03and part of this is what you were saying

12:05about even the patients they have to

12:07realize okay there is going to be some

12:09work involved

12:10um so how do you go down that path of

12:13okay let’s start with CBT or we really

12:16need to work on this trauma through EMDR

12:18and for some of our viewers like well

12:20that’s a lot of acronyms I’ve never

12:21heard before so maybe a little bit more

12:23basic of like how do you start yeah it’s

12:26you know we have our profiles online

12:29we’re on a mental health match

12:31Psychology today and so you know someone

12:35who’s choosing a therapy can kind of

12:38read and see what we’re about they can

12:40visit our website and then you know

12:41through our consultation you know I

12:45try to tell and encourage people that

12:47you know they’re coming to me as a

12:50resource not to be the expert on their

12:52life and that’s something that I’ve held

12:54very true

12:56um ever since I’ve started you know

12:57being a therapist is that no one can be

13:00an expert on your life but you and so

13:03that’s really where the empowerment

13:04comes in and meeting people where they

13:07are just because they’ve called and

13:09they’ve made the appointment and done

13:10the assessment doesn’t always

13:12necessarily mean that they’re really

13:13ready to kind of dig in deep to do the

13:16work too and so it’s kind of really just

13:18chipping and peeling away those layers

13:20of defense mechanisms that have kept

13:24them safe but continue to keep them sick

13:27that makes a lot of sense because

13:29we’ll do the TMS or sometimes the

13:32bravado ketamine for addiction but in

13:34many cases we tell the patient like no I

13:36this is a deep problem and we need to

13:38chip away at this slowly instead of

13:41starting this medication right away

13:42let’s do some therapy get more of an

13:44insight into what’s going on because

13:47unless the patients themselves can

13:49really figure out what am I feeling and

13:52how can I explain this to someone it’s

13:54almost like we’re veterinarians trying

13:55to like okay the cat meow that way so

13:58this must be the problem and we have to

14:00treat it that way and especially with

14:02complex disorders it can get very

14:03confusing very quickly that way yeah and

14:06I’ll share an example with you I had a

14:09person who had as many of my clients do

14:12some pretty significant trauma history

14:14and had decided to go on a journey in

14:17the car and did did not expect to

14:20encounter some like bad weather and so

14:23in this experience where they had no

14:25control they needed to get to their

14:27destination they were feeling anxiety

14:30and some triggers of their PTSD coming

14:34up

14:35and through our sessions they had been

14:39practicing tapping and so per their

14:43reports you know they said well I tried

14:45that tapping thing that you told me

14:47about and it didn’t work and and here’s

14:50what I say to that is that you didn’t

14:52increase your anxiety you actually were

14:55so focused on tapping that you weren’t

14:58being triggered by the environment and

15:00so while it didn’t make it a zero

15:03because you were still kind of fighting

15:04the bear in that moment it did work

15:07because you didn’t get worse it didn’t

15:10escalate to a full-blown panic attack

15:13and so when we’re talking to a lot of

15:16people who are in early recovery again

15:20getting them to identify that the quick

15:22fixes aren’t there like we have to

15:25meditate

15:26um

15:27consistently it doesn’t have to be hours

15:29and hours and hours at a time but if we

15:32do five minutes a day every day the

15:35neural Pathways in our brain change over

15:37time and it gets easier and easier so

15:39maybe you do want to do it longer and

15:42longer because you find the Peace of the

15:45relief to be so much more comforting

15:47than the chaos of the triggers and the

15:50trauma right so instead of being

15:52continually stimulated even if you think

15:54oh this is lame or this isn’t working or

15:56this is boring that’s still a very

15:58healthy thing for your brain to feel

16:00yeah there’s a study that said that

16:01today’s teens have as things have

16:04anxiety levels as high as what they saw

16:06in asylums a few Generations ago the

16:09part that is because we expect that we

16:11can control Our Lives because so much

16:13today compared to Generations ago you

16:15can control like I was at Cedar Point

16:17last week and I didn’t have my phone and

16:19I was trying to find my family and I was

16:21like this is uh I don’t get upset easily

16:25or it takes a lot to Rattle me and I

16:28wasn’t angry or worried about the con

16:30this reminds me back in the day when I

16:32was a kid and you didn’t have a cell

16:34phone you just have to like look around

16:36and find the people you came with but

16:37even that experience was like I haven’t

16:39felt this for a while where like I just

16:40don’t know where the people are that I

16:42came with yeah so we think we have life

16:44under control and then all of a sudden

16:45there’s a crack in our perfect sphere of

16:48how life is supposed to be and we just

16:49go to Pieces it’s funny that you say

16:52that because I actually was lost as a

16:54little kid at Cedar Point at age eight

16:56where where I definitely did not have

16:58cell phones at that point in time so

17:00like I did what I was taught to go to

17:03you know the lost and found and you know

17:05got reconnected with my family and so

17:08yeah we have lived through these

17:10experiences where we haven’t had

17:12everything at the tip of our fingers and

17:14we don’t need to always have everything

17:16at the tip of our fingers because there

17:18are systems in place that will offer

17:20support right yeah that’s a good point I

17:24mean that probably would have just gone

17:25and ridden the Scrambler a couple times

17:26but you’re probably a better kid than I

17:28was

17:30yeah I also wandered off a lot but this

17:32isn’t supposed to be my own personal

17:33therapy session so yeah we’ll get back

17:35on topic but you know and I think that

17:38that’s you know something to kind of

17:39bring about is that you know something

17:42that small would be very unraveling for

17:46you know a lot of the people that we

17:48treat and that we see come into our

17:50agencies because they weren’t taught

17:53like your niece how to identify feelings

17:56and self-soothe and I think that that’s

17:59the biggest thing because the people

18:00that I see

18:02boredom and lack of productivity means

18:06they can’t rest they can’t restore

18:08because they’re so worried about

18:11um those thought processes that kind of

18:13come in when they have those down

18:15moments where

18:17um to let the thought go and you know

18:21this idea that you know meditation and

18:24even yoga means that I’ve cleared all of

18:26the cobwebs all the thoughts you know I

18:28have zero thoughts and that’s not the

18:30intention the intention is to honor it

18:33acknowledge it maybe kind of be curious

18:36about where that comes from and Let It

18:39Go

18:40so I had a patient yesterday who was

18:42talking about inner restlessness and I

18:43was like well the problem is I’ll start

18:45to exercise but I’ll get really tired

18:47like my nervous system is so wired that

18:49I can’t get rid of it by exercising but

18:52it’s always with me something like yoga

18:53or meditation might be helpful in that

18:56case yeah and one of the things and I

18:58don’t know if you’ve seen this as well

19:00one of the newer pieces of

19:03um trauma research that’s showing is

19:06that when people do like high intensity

19:07workouts because our nervous system

19:11doesn’t know the difference well is this

19:12trauma or is this just me being excited

19:15it reacts the same way and so again for

19:18some of those people this calm down this

19:21slow down effect is more appropriate to

19:24get them to tap into their

19:25parasympathetic nervous system

19:27right yeah there’s a lot of our patients

19:30we can call it anxiety or depression or

19:33fibromyalgia but for some of them the

19:35root cause is just a nervous system

19:37mismatch or the parasympathetic nervous

19:39system that’s supposed to let you do

19:41rest and eat and digest and the

19:43sympathetic which is supposed to go out

19:45and you have a spear in your stab a

19:47saber-toothed tiger just it’s a little

19:50bit to my analogy earlier like being

19:51like a kid again but it’s almost like a

19:53prehistoric thing where this makes a lot

19:56of sense if you have an acute stress and

19:58your brain is really excited and that it

20:00deals with the issue and it’s gone but

20:02not in today’s world where it’s like

20:03okay I still have to pay the mortgage

20:05this month and it’s a chronic stress

20:07that there isn’t really relief from yeah

20:09and you know when we are devoting at

20:13least 40 hours of our work life to

20:16outside of the home for many people even

20:19for even for people who do get to work

20:20at home you’re committed to doing

20:24something during that time right and you

20:26know by the time you come home and eat

20:28and and find connection with the people

20:31that you live with or the people in your

20:33community

20:34you know that can be mundane for some

20:37people because they don’t find the

20:39Gratitude out of those experiences and

20:42look for the nuances of change within

20:45each of those experiences right

20:48so what is the first step then in

20:50meditating and again I have a lot of

20:52fascinating guests on the show all the

20:54time so I have a Pentecostal background

20:57so for me there’s plenty of Psalms about

20:59meditating on the Lord clearing your

21:01mind focusing on him the Eastern

21:03mysticism there’s a lot of other ideas

21:04of how exactly we clear our minds but

21:08for everyone the faith process is one

21:11has to be genuine I mean that’s

21:12something that I’m sure you’ve noticed

21:14in your work and I’ve noticed in mind

21:15that a spiritual facade or a let’s just

21:20add some generic spirituality yeah the

21:22word holistic and a few other buzzwords

21:24and then you’re set like that’s it just

21:27doesn’t work even a little bit so what’s

21:29like the first step to kind of clear

21:30your mind or Center yourself yeah

21:33um I love that question and

21:35um the thing that I’ve learned from my

21:38meditation teacher is that you should be

21:40comfortable when you meditate because

21:42again it’s going to let us open up and

21:44kind of give and receive in that process

21:47so a lot of people think that they have

21:48to be very stoic and sitting in a you

21:52know very

21:54stiff and rigid form and you really

21:57don’t like my favorite way to meditate

22:00is laying down on the ground with a

22:02bunch of bolsters and pillows and

22:04blankets around me where I’m very much

22:07tucked in and have this relaxation

22:10around me one minute a day is all that

22:13you really need to start that Journey

22:15it’s ten breaths okay you know five if

22:19you’re able to hold and exhale

22:25um a little bit longer which some people

22:26because of you know

22:28um

22:29disorders they might not be able to but

22:32being able to inhale and exhale and

22:35extending the exhale longer than the

22:37inhale again Taps into the

22:39parasympathetic nervous system so we’re

22:41getting that down regulation in those

22:44moments so set your timer on your phone

22:46or whatever device you know that you’re

22:50working with and just breathe for one

22:52minute and see how you feel

22:54and that makes a lot of sense because

22:56what I was saying about different

22:57religious beliefs it’s that same thing

22:59with Comfort if you’re like I kind of

23:01feel like this isn’t what I believe or

23:03like it’s not going to work because then

23:05you’re because I’ve seen people who’ve

23:06done that like navat Christians going to

23:09like an acupuncturist and they’re like

23:10well I really don’t believe in this but

23:12nothing else has helped I was like well

23:13you have to be in the right mindset

23:15before you try anything like you have to

23:17be in I think the young kids these days

23:21would say it’s a Vibe with it I just

23:23made myself sound a lot older than I am

23:24well and I think it goes back to what

23:27you were saying at the beginning of the

23:28episode is that you know we look to a

23:34medical

23:35interventions as a way to heal when we

23:39are really the vessels to heal ourselves

23:42and we can do that through breath

23:44through movement and sometimes with the

23:48help of medication but if we start with

23:51ourselves a lot of people would be very

23:53surprised at the power that they have to

23:56heal

23:57um right well it makes sense because I

24:00tell patients like well I can do a lot

24:02of this for you but you’re gonna have to

24:03see my face all the time or you can do a

24:06lot of this work and then my patients

24:08are doing the best they’ll come in maybe

24:10once a month for sprovado which is the

24:12nasal spray ketamine or they’ll come in

24:15every two months and it’s enough to

24:16check in make sure everything’s fine but

24:18then they’re doing the rest of the work

24:20and it’s a really good balance where

24:22it’s completely in their control it’s

24:24not oh no I really have to go back there

24:26or at that time of the week where I have

24:28to go for my appointment appointment but

24:30getting there again it is but the other

24:34question would have was what about

24:35active addiction because those are cases

24:37where it’s not okay just do some yoga

24:39and you’ll be fine that’s when we have

24:40to use all of our resources how to

24:43prevent that from becoming too much or

24:45we’re so focused it becomes this uh okay

24:48every single feeling I feel I have to

24:49report it I have to talk to my therapist

24:51I have to do all this work and then they

24:53get exhausted and relapse

24:55yeah I think that that’s where

24:59having an opportunity to be vulnerable

25:01is really critical because in active

25:05addiction that’s trauma any person who

25:09has lived in active addiction that’s a

25:10whole trauma cycle that doesn’t even

25:13count

25:14as what got you to that point right and

25:17so we’re talking about all of these

25:19little T’s in these Big T’s that we need

25:22to look at and address why do we say yes

25:25to using substances as opposed to no

25:28because your typical person can manage

25:30throughout the day without turning to a

25:33substance to down regulate and that’s

25:35not to say that we all don’t have our

25:37own vices right and so then where is

25:40that moderation factor in that and

25:44you know at least in our culture we have

25:46this abstinence only ideal and maybe

25:50that works for some people and maybe

25:52that’s not the case for other people

25:54maybe they can find a way to moderate at

25:58least alcohol use where

26:01um in other European countries you know

26:03they when you get down to the root of

26:06why you’re picking up alcohol as a way

26:09to cope

26:11um maybe that’s not the way that you

26:12cope anymore and so you can do things

26:15differently absolutely that’s great so

26:18if anyone wants to reach you how do they

26:20do that if they need to schedule an

26:21appointment or just see all everything

26:22that you all offer over there so you’re

26:25going to go to carve your

26:27carvemypath.org

26:28and you can schedule online for Reiki

26:33sessions and sign up for our yoga

26:35classes

26:36and you can send an informational email

26:40requesting information about yoga Reiki

26:44we also offer art therapy with Jenna and

26:49we have all three of us have a different

26:53view of holistic Services great and then

26:56for us it’s Ascend healthcenter.com we

26:59have Psychiatry therapy we offer trans

27:01kind of magnetic stimulation

27:03sprovado ketamine but like we’re just

27:06saying sometimes you need some high-tech

27:08solution and sometimes you just need to

27:10breathe and pay attention to it so

27:12thanks for joining us today

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